A recent poll shows that three-fourths of all Americans want Universal Health Insurance. That's right .... the people conducting the poll actually capitalized Universal Health Insurance.

Let's dispel something right now. It's not insurance these people want, it's a medical payment plan. The purpose of insurance is to reimburse you for unexpected losses. The cost of regular health care, and this includes the normal costs associated with a pregnancy, are not unexpected. We should budget for these costs just as we would budget for the expenses of owning a home or a car.

No .. it's not health insurance the American people want. What they truly want is for someone else to step forward to foot the bill. Their goal is to pay about $500 out of their own pockets every year, and then have someone else, either their employer or the taxpayers, be responsible for everything else. Another recent survey revealed that young Americans would rather pay their cell phone bill than use that money to buy insurance. These young workers said that they will just wait to get health insurance until they get a job where it is included in a benefits package. In other words, they make a conscious decision not to get health insurance ... and then fully expect the taxpayers to step up and fill in the financial gaps if anything serious happens.

The American people are going to get what they're asking for. Socialized medicine is inevitable in the U.S. The politicians want it because of the degree of power it will give them over the lives of their constituents. The people want it because they have been programmed to believe that their health care is the responsibility of either their employer or the government.

It's coming ... and it's going to be ugly as hell. The long waits for simple diagnostic tests that have become commonplace in Canada will become the norm here. It may come to the point ... most likely it will come to the point that you will be assigned to a doctor just as your child is assigned to a school. Remember Hillarycare? Under that system if you decided to take your own money and go hire your own doctor outside of the Hillarycare scheme (somewhat like taking your child out of a government school and putting him in a private school) you could be charged with a crime. It may be necessary to adopt that policy again after people discover what a disaster their precious "universal health care" is going to be.

Take a look at Walter Reed. Go visit your local Veterans Hospital. Check out a Social Security office. It's coming folks. You asked for it. You couldn't handle the responsibility yourself, and the politicians ****ed sure weren't going to present you with private sector free market options unless you demanded them.

Oh .. and by the way. That "universal health care" tag? That's just something the left came up with to avoid using the S-word. Socialist

I don't think what people want is insurance or to freeload off of someone else, all people want is to know that if they get sick, they can get proper medical care. Simple as that.

There are drawbacks to socialized medicine, there are drawbacks to the system we have now. Nothing is perfect. We just have to find a system that works best to give EVERYONE access to necessary medical care and that is NOT the case now so we DO need somthing different.

Personally, I'd like to see the whole idea of "healthcare" in this country right now redone because right now we dont' have "healthcare" we have "sickcare". People need to change how they think about health- start living healthy lifestyles so that people are sick less often, but that involves things like a healthy diet and exercise which is not currently available across socioeconomic classes.

Our governor will be passing a law soon with a little luck, in which all people of Illinois will have insurance. The state will pay for it thru taxes of large companies, now that's what I've been saying all along. I think it will be free up to a certain wage level, and then a reduced payment will be required, I would be paying around $1300 a year, which is about $60 dollars more a month, but if it meant finally working at a job that I love without worrying about health insurance ,it will be well worth it. Of course, conservatives are biting at the bit, heeheee. I hope the whole country follows suit.

I'm not living in the US, but I did read this thread, because I'd like to know how the healthcare-system is in the US.
I pay 4000 dollars a year (for two adults). I don't have to pay for the kids. And another 4000 dollars (taxes). That's a lot of money, but
we're also insured for when we get ill, we get payed when we stay at home for a fever.If something really bad happens and you can't go back to work at all, after two years, you'll get 70% of the money you earned before each month.


Here's how our system works, for anyone who's interested.

As from the 1st of January 2006, a new health care insurance system will be implemented in the Netherlands. Objective is to introduce the standard insurance against the costs of curative care in 2006. This care insurance puts an end to the current dual scheme of health insurance fund - and private insurance. The government determines which medical care is covered in this standard package. For inhabitants of the Netherlands it is compulsory to insure themselves. The care insurers are obliged to accept anyone who applies for insurance. Insured people can change to another care insurer once a year.


The premium exists partly out of a nominal fee for individual insured people. Employers pay an income-related contribution to the scheme.

For the basic insurance you will have to pay a premium to the insurer. This is known as the nominal premium. Most likely this nominal premium will cost around € 1100,- per annum per person. For children under the age of 18 the “basisverzekering” is free of charge.

Depending on your income and family situation, you may be eligible for compensation. This compensation is applicable if you are living alone and your income is not higher than € 25,068 per annum, or, if you are living together, your total income is not higher than € 40,120 per annum.

In addition to the nominal premium, every person obliged to take out insurance has to pay an income-related contribution. The Tax and Customs Administration has been designated as the administration agency for imposing and collecting the income-related contribution.



Medical care, including general practitioner, hospital care and prescribed specialist care
Dental care (until the age of 18, as from 18 only specialist dental care and dentures)
Medical aid
Medicine
Post natal mother and baby care, midwife services
Ambulance costs and costs of transport
Rehabilitation care (limited physiotherapy/rehabilitation, speech therapy, occupational therapy and dietary advice).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dutchfan,

Socialization of healthcare would probably be the worst thing that could happen. Just take a walk through any VA Hospital (Veterans Administration Hospital), any local Health Department and you can see the degree of inadaquent care on all levels. Waiting up to 6 months for a test, to see a specialist or just a routine visit is not acceptable and that is the way the country will be headed if we head in the direction of socilized medicine.

Are we really so dependent upon the government and unable to take responsibility for our own healthcare insurance that we want it to run our healthcare as well? Doesn`t the government already control too much?

quote:

Originally posted by LISAJUNKIEE:
Our governor will be passing a law soon with a little luck, in which all people of Illinois will have insurance. The state will pay for it thru taxes of large companies, now that's what I've been saying all along. I think it will be free up to a certain wage level, and then a reduced payment will be required, I would be paying around $1300 a year, which is about $60 dollars more a month, but if it meant finally working at a job that I love without worrying about health insurance ,it will be well worth it. Of course, conservatives are biting at the bit, heeheee. I hope the whole country follows suit.

I lived in New Mexico over the summer and they had a program where no child could be refused medical insurance. That was nice.

I havne't heard about this new Illinois thing yet, I hope it's true though because my sister can't get insurance anywhere. She was born anemic (hasn't had any problems since) but that seems to be grounds enough for insurance to deny her.

I just wanted what kind of fine print there is. Usually these kind of things are like "insurance for everyone (except those that don't meet the following criteria)". I'd be really happy if there is indeed some kind of policy that would allow EVERYONE to have insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by Unique Dog:
Socialization of healthcare would probably be the worst thing that could happen. Just take a walk through any VA Hospital (Veterans Administration Hospital), any local Health Department and you can see the degree of inadaquent care on all levels. Waiting up to 6 months for a test, to see a specialist or just a routine visit is not acceptable and that is the way the country will be headed if we head in the direction of socilized medicine.

Are we really so dependent upon the government and unable to take responsibility for our own healthcare insurance that we want it to run our healthcare as well? Doesn`t the government already control too much?

Walk through a hospital that serves an inner city and see how many of the poor can't even get medicine for their child's ear ache. Or how many people have to sit in the emergency room for an entire day to treat ANY health problem because they can't afford insurance and the emergency room is the ONLY place required to treat you without insurance. Or the people that have to work and can't wait all day in the ER for a chance at some help.

Like I said, BOTH systems have issues.

It's really a question of do you want at least SOME care for EVERYONE (socialized) or do you want outstanding care for the FEW and PRIVELEDGED (which is what we have now). Which one you like better is really a matter of personal values. Me, I'm a liberal, I value equality- so I'd rather see SOME healthcare for EVERYONE.

Perhaps those who use the ER as their main source of medical care should take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance. Then they would not be in this crisis. It can be done and it`s not hard to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Unique Dog:
Perhaps those who use the ER as their main source of medical care should take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance. Then they would not be in this crisis. It can be done and it`s not hard to do.

I think you're missing the point. They are going to the ER because THEY CAN NOT GET INSURANCE. How do you expect them to 'take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance' if they 1.) can not afford insurance or 2.) are turned down by insurance?

You seem to think you have all the answers so please, explain to me how you think these people are supposed to 'take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance'.

UD, it seems to be working in Canada, let's ask them if it's worth it, cuz the system here ****s the big one and I do mean the big one.

quote:

Originally posted by gilesmic:

quote:

Originally posted by LISAJUNKIEE:
Our governor will be passing a law soon with a little luck, in which all people of Illinois will have insurance. The state will pay for it thru taxes of large companies, now that's what I've been saying all along. I think it will be free up to a certain wage level, and then a reduced payment will be required, I would be paying around $1300 a year, which is about $60 dollars more a month, but if it meant finally working at a job that I love without worrying about health insurance ,it will be well worth it. Of course, conservatives are biting at the bit, heeheee. I hope the whole country follows suit.

I lived in New Mexico over the summer and they had a program where no child could be refused medical insurance. That was nice.

I havne't heard about this new Illinois thing yet, I hope it's true though because my sister can't get insurance anywhere. She was born anemic (hasn't had any problems since) but that seems to be grounds enough for insurance to deny her.

I just wanted what kind of fine print there is. Usually these kind of things are like "insurance for everyone (except those that don't meet the following criteria)". I'd be really happy if there is indeed some kind of policy that would allow EVERYONE to have insurance.

Gilesmic, I read the whole article , and it seemed resonable to me. It would mostly help the poor, but also the forgotten middle class. I don't think,at least I hope, that the chronically ill would not be ignored. (crosses fingers)

Glad I live in Canada

quote:

Originally posted by LISAJUNKIEE:


Gilesmic, I read the whole article , and it seemed resonable to me. It would mostly help the poor, but also the forgotten middle class. I don't think,at least I hope, that the chronically ill would not be ignored. (crosses fingers)

Well I hope so. I know my sister would be delighted. She's so tired of fighting with insurance companies and them giving her the run around.

*crosses toes too*....

quote:

Originally posted by LISAJUNKIEE:
*crosses toes too*....

I talked to my sister about this today, and she said that all it is is that if you're rejected from insurance companies three times you qualify for medicare.